The Democrats vs The Greens

With a federal election lurching drunkenly towards us, I figured it would be a nice idea to channel my usual undirected ranting into this website I seem to have. By now, most people who know me are painfully aware that I am an avid supporter of the Australian Democrats. "But," my friends might say, in their braver moments, "why the hell would you support the Democrats when the Greens are... you know... actually holding seats."

Well, you inflammatory hippie, I'm glad you asked!

I will grudgingly admit that it is a good question. The Democrats and the Greens appear similarly aligned on social issues, political standards, and issues affecting democracy itself such as censorship and voting processes. If the most important things in the world to you are social equality, environmentalism and how to interpret repeated numbers on a fully populated senate ballot, then you'd be hard pressed to see a reason to go Democrats over Greens.

To start with, just look at the Greens' policy page. It's... wonderful. Breathtaking, even. It puts the major parties to shame. It kicks hell out of the Democrats, that's for sure. Painstakingly detailed, well organised, clear and concise and motivated by ideology.

And yet, completely irrelevant.

The Greens are, at their core, an environmental party. But should a rational environmentalist really support the Greens? For reasons of culture and history, environmental activism carries with it the rather unshakeable baggage of technophobia and animosity towards business. Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, the only realistic way to tackle the environmental issues we face is through science and business: world-class research and development, brilliantly clever engineering, and absolutely hands-down mercenary marketing of the results.

See the paradox? While the Greens claim to be supportive of Australian science, there are some slight problems with the details. An illustrative example might help. Starting with policy:

  • The Greens want us to all use renewable energy
  • That's great!
  • The most promising areas of research that might one day yield, say, a fan-baseload-tastic solar panel are:
    • materials science and engineering, and
    • nanotechnology
  • The Greens hate nanotechnology
  • One of the things that makes Australia such a damn fine country for materials research is the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation
  • The Greens hate ANSTO (see #17)
  • Well, how abou—
  • BOOOOOOOOOooooo
Greens support for renewable energy
The third most boring Venn diagram in the world.

(ANSTO, by the way, is one of the few things that makes me truly patriotic. Here we have a scientific organisation that is possibly unique throughout the world for not dragging out the "disproving Einstein" chestnut every time it asks for funding. Amazing.)

So the Greens theoretically support using renewable energy, just as long as all that icky science used to develop it is done somewhere else. Right. Which is not technically inconsistent with their view that we should use it, but the only other implication I can see is that we wait for some other country to develop it and pay them for it.

Now consider the above example, but substitute genetically modified food and agriculture. (I strongly recommend Mark Winston's book Travels in the Genetically Modified Zone for learning about this topic without being overwhelmed by violent impulses.)

The great twist about the GM story: one of the big arguments against GM is that it gives a couple of major corporations complete control over food production. What a surprise that it turned out that way! When environmental organisations and political parties create and foster an incredibly hostile climate towards a particular technology, it cannot possibly come as a shock when only well established corporations survive for long enough to completely dominate the industry. I'd rather not see the same thing happen to renewable energy — except that, really, it is already. Instead of being indentured to fossil fuel and mining companies for oil and gas, we can be indentured to exactly the same companies for solar panels and wind turbines!

No room for the little guy
There's just no room for the little guy.

This is all somewhat speculative though. Maybe the Greens will never have enough sway to really scuttle renewable energy technology. But what about the opportunity they had to implement Australia's first real, live, actual environmental economic policy?

Denied.

To be fair, Labor's emissions trading scheme was just about the worst solution to the problem that anyone could have come up with. If they'd held a few more meetings, I would not have been surprised to see polar-bear-powered oil tankers invented. But...

Consider Australia's paid parental leave scheme: it is, in fact, considered the worst in the world. We tied with the USA for that honour. However: At least we freaking have one.

The fact that we actually have a parental leave scheme in place means that future political debate will not be based on "yes we should"/"no we shouldn't", but on how to change it. Believe it or not, there's a remote chance that the Australian political process might improve it. Would supporters of paid parental leave have been happy if it had been rejected out of hand because it's not a Sweden-beater?

(Just a digression: I tried to find some references for Labor's ETS, but I became unspeakably depressed while hunting through their website for solid information. Find it yourself.)

So what did the Greens rejection of the ETS achieve for the environment? What was the point of voting them into the Senate to do exactly what the Liberal party did for the biggest environmental policy ever presented to the Australian parliament? (Note: not rhetorical.)

No, let's just stay right here
The Australian Senate, 2009: "No, no, let's just stay right here."

As specific as these examples are, they speak to a greater intrinsic problem I have with the Greens: irrational environmental activism and ideological posturing is no more helpful to the environment than the concept of a civil union is to gay equality.

The Greens are every bit as reliant on rhetoric and non-sequiturs as the major parties are, except that their hollowness relates to their core values and not to issues they see as extraneous. Their policy could be written in radium for all that it matters.

Without negotiation and compromise, nothing gets done. Without a rational basis for decisions, the wrong things get done. As far as I'm concerned, the Greens embody both of these critical flaws. While they should, in theory, cancel out ("Getting the wrong things not done!"), I'd rather get behind a party that is based upon the idea that a representative democracy runs on negotiation and compromise, not stubbornness, and is not so deeply mired in an ideology that it logically disproves its own goals.

In short, I politely suggest that you consider: the Democrats. Thank you.


Incidentally, my feelings on the Greens, and the brand of environmentalism touted by Greenpeace (deliberate omission of link) is probably best reflected in my manifesto to destroy the Sun. Although that doesn't make it any less a noble goal.

Comments

Laurie's picture

So when the Greens say that part of their policy for a nuclear-free Australia will be to "close the OPAL nuclear reactor at Lucas Heights", does that mean that ANSTO would be closed too?

Jason Heeris's picture

Strictly speaking, they wouldn't have to close, but realistically there would be far less justification for their existence. The OPAL reactor is basically a neutron factory — those neutrons are used to make radionuclides for medicine (radiopharmaceuticals) and industrial usage (eg. weld gauging and flaw detection). That makes up the majority of OPAL's output (last time I checked), but the neutron beams are also used for materials science and other physics research (eg. small angle neutron scattering).

It's possible that they would still be around to coordinate distribution of imported radionuclides. The idea is that for importation, a different set of radionuclides are imported, and then the actual isotopes that are used, like Tc-99m, are generated from them some other way. To my knowledge, most hospitals in Australia already have the facilities to do this directly though, so it's hard to see what role ANSTO might play.

But as far as what I've written here goes, without the reactor, there would be no more neutron beams for the sort of cutting edge materials research they're doing now. More importantly, it's really doubtful that a lot of the scientists would hang around, which means even the non-neutron-beam-related research will suffer. If you've built a career around nuclear physics, and the place you're working at has no more nuclear, there's no reason to stay.

Carrie's picture

Hi, I knew very little about our political parties a few weeks ago. As the election drawing close, I started reading policies and plans of the several major parties, under the help from my husband. We even created a scorecard spreadsheet, in which lists all the policies that we come across for the major parties. (12 of them) We did an exercise to analyze how much we like each of the policies and how important we think for each of them... The result turned out I am more aligned to the Democracts policies, then the Green... In consideration on how the Green has behaved in the parliment in the past, I do agree that we may probably go nowhere with them rejecting each thing that is not "precisely" right.

Then my husband forwarded me this link. I agree most of your viewpoint, as we (my husband and I) have been discussing late every night recently. That's a well written essay with geniune facts. Thank you.

A pity that the Demacracts had a bit of tumble in the last ten years. I wonder if they can overpower the Green in the near future, since I can see that they have good and reasonable policies and a sensible way to move towards their ideology in the practical world.
I am also feeling pathetic about the stupidity of the two current major parties - I find Liberal is worse aligned with my personal value.

Carrie

Ewen Laver's picture

As a supporter of The Greens I think you overstate the case.

While one can take issue with the anti-nuclear stance of The Greens (I certainly do), on most issues where policy is in serious dispute, they are on the right side, whereas The Australian Democrats are not.

I would argue that it was precisely the want of clar policy by your party that has seen their political demise and the concession of most of your support to us. It is no accident that one of your last political acts was to get involved in horsetrading senate preferences in Victoria with the ALP to keep out a Green (whom you knew would be ahead of you) by funnelling preferences to ... Stephen Fielding of FF. As a result, The Democrats ensured that a fundamentalist religious party whose candidate achieved less than 1% held the balance of power in the senate and was given a platform to spruik the most reactrionary of policies, slander scientists and block action on climate change. Yours was the party who helped Howard get elected in 1998 despite achieving less of the vote than the ALP and helped him flig off Telstra, porkbarrell the funds, introduce a GST (which you said you were against) etc. Rather than "keeping the bastards honest" you enabled their dishonesty and double-crossed your own supporters. The Greens will never do that. I don't mourn your party's demise. Most of your people were worthy, but your mission conception led you into a dead end.

My party stands up for sustainability, for equity and for social justice. Yours did not. It's as simple as that.

Jason Heeris's picture

Okay, let's be clear: I don't really hate them like my rant here suggests. Well... on a relative scale. With all the other Senate candidates.

So it is an overstatement if you consider this to be the sum total of my opinion of the Greens. I'm glad that amongst the parties that do stand up for equality, there is one as well organised as the Greens. But for me personally, seeing Australia regain some sort of strength in scientific and technological innovation is also a priority.

It's not just a selfish priority (it is in part, because I'd like to be involved), and it's not just out of a sense of general scientific pride. I think that having strong scientific community is an important component of a healthy economy and democracy.

While the Greens do not represent the kind of threat to that happening like the Libs do, they're still acutely discouraging. It says a lot that only CSIRO is specifically mentioned in their science policies — and ANSTO is under a section largely about nuclear energy, despite having nothing to do with the topic of nuclear energy. (Do they have a solution for sourcing nuclear medicine? Or should we all use homeopathy?)

They basically pay lip service to a vague idea of "science is good!" while displaying nothing but animosity to the realistic elements of building a scientific community. That is not the way to a sustainable future.

If you want to talk about honesty — in the year I worked at ANSTO, I never once heard a factually correct statement from a Greens party member regarding the place. And I specifically went to the trouble of trawling the media statements from both the Greens and ANSTO for the previous years in my spare time. Some of their claims could have been proven wrong by a high school student with about four lines of algebra.

They bag the place out to get environmental street cred to get elected. Just like the Libs want everyone to obsess over debt and boats, and Labor are the last defence of the Aussie Battlers(TM), the Greens love to hate anything with the word "nuclear" in it.

Is it honest or virtuous for them to campaign against the big parties being bankrolled, and then to take a $300k donation from the ETU? Or is it okay, because they have good intentions?

As much as people blame the Dems for the GST — how good would the GST have been if it had been held off until the Libs had control of the Senate? They made a call to soften it rather than block it because it didn't look likely that Howard was going to get kicked out any time soon, and the next Senate lynchpin may have a nutjob for all they knew.

The preference call was just plain dumb, I will absolutely agree with you on that. Your use of the word "ensure" is misleading though: the Democrats plus the ALP plus a handful of voters plus the preferential voting system we use all ensured Fielding's success. Blaming it all on the Dems is just scapegoating.

I was so happy to see Fielding out, by the way. And then I saw he was replaced by the DLP (there's an acronym that rhymes with WTF). Aaaah wonderful.

But apart from all the details, there's an underlying flaw in your comparison: the Greens have never had a chance to make decisions of the magnitude that the Democrats did, and be judged on whether or not they were mistakes. It's easy to say they're a better party when they haven't really been tested in this role.

I'm optimistic that their presence in both houses now will be for the better in general — I really am. But with the state of Australian universities and research organisations being as bad as it is already, I'm not so sure that I'll be hanging around to see whether the Greens attempt to dismantle the last one.

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